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04/03/25 15:39:35 heav: with the exceptions of yu and uy, which are not allowed.
04/03/25 15:39:37 raven: nice.
04/03/25 15:40:01 heav: this script is latinized with IPA, with the exception of ɑ.
04/03/25 15:40:08 heav: which is just .
04/03/25 15:40:11 raven: a.
04/03/25 15:40:21 heav: as for sound rules™:
04/03/25 15:40:27 heav: (i refuse to use the correct jargon.)
04/03/25 15:40:40 heav: stress is on the first syllable of each word.
04/03/25 15:40:43 raven: it's funny because you're basically englishizing the greek
04/03/25 15:40:56 heav: not untrue.
04/03/25 15:41:11 heav: consonants are geminated if there are two in a row. (this is not a thing that happens for vowels for... maybe obvious reasons.)
04/03/25 15:41:29 heav: syllables are structured as so:
04/03/25 15:41:38 heav: (C_1)(C_2)V(C_3).
04/03/25 15:41:45 heav: C_1 and C_2 cannot both be stops that are also different.
04/03/25 15:42:00 heav: there can't be triple consonants anywhere (i.e you can't put syllables together such that that would happen).
04/03/25 15:42:16 heav: and, that should be it.
04/03/25 15:42:19 heav: so far.
04/03/25 15:42:23 heav: thoughts?
04/03/25 15:42:41 heav: and yes, i'm aware this makes horrifying constructions like "jjyij" valid syllables.
04/03/25 15:42:46 raven: good.
04/03/25 15:42:50 raven: jjyij.
04/03/25 15:43:17 heav: now i must decide on all of the not sound things.
04/03/25 15:43:21 heav: this is the hard and interesting part.
04/03/25 15:43:27 raven: nice. good.
04/03/25 15:43:36 raven: I anticipate this
04/03/25 15:43:48 heav: a thing i've come to know of language is:
04/03/25 15:43:59 heav: it's incredibly, very broad.
04/03/25 15:44:04 raven: that's true
04/03/25 15:44:06 heav: natlangs contain things i never would have thought of myself.
04/03/25 15:44:14 raven: yes, true
04/03/25 15:44:20 raven: what was one such thing you learned of
04/03/25 15:44:29 heav: it's surprisingly hard to make something substantially outside of the convex hull of things i know about.
04/03/25 15:44:46 heav: hmm. i suppose learning finnish has certainly taught me a lot about what cases can do.
04/03/25 15:45:07 heav: i don't think i'd ever have devised such a case system myself.
04/03/25 15:45:17 raven: aha.
04/03/25 15:45:20 heav: so, my conclusion is this:
04/03/25 15:45:28 heav: if i want to make a really cool conlang, i must learn lots of things about natlangs first.
04/03/25 15:45:37 heav: ideally ones that are as different from english as possible.
04/03/25 15:45:40 raven: very plausible.
04/03/25 15:46:29 heav: i do not want to fall into the trap of making yet another generic loglang with semantic spaces just like english.
04/03/25 15:46:46 heav: which is probably what would happen if i didn't explicitly try to not do that.
04/03/25 15:46:51 raven: aha
04/03/25 15:47:13 raven: a loglang is one which records logs
04/03/25 15:47:20 heav: this is a reference to this.
04/03/25 15:47:33 raven: truly.
04/03/25 15:48:02 heav: i wonder if any of the log pages' chats will exceed 1 page.
04/03/25 15:48:22 heav: a page, for reference, is 100 messages as i've implemented it.
04/03/25 15:48:34 raven: aha.
04/03/25 15:48:58 heav: (while i could change that, it would also retroactively change which pages contain which messages. due to there being chats on each page i don't want to do that.)
04/03/25 15:49:20 heav: not that i'd want to. i think 100 is a reasonable number.
04/03/25 15:49:26 raven: 100 is a good number.
04/03/25 15:52:22 heav: i've been vaguely thinking about how i want the grammar and vocabulary of my conlang to go.]
04/03/25 15:52:33 heav: i haven't really committed to anything but i've had some vague ideas floating around.
04/03/25 15:52:52 heav: for forming new vocabulary, i want each word to have a systematic way to attain a very shortened version of it.
04/03/25 15:53:09 heav: not such that it's an unambiguous mapping; it would be more mnemonic than actually completely deriving the new word.
04/03/25 15:53:23 raven: interesting.
04/03/25 15:53:24 heav: but i still want a way of coming up with new words from existing other words.
04/03/25 15:53:34 heav: i also am feeling inspired by toki pona in some ways.
04/03/25 15:53:47 heav: namely, how toki pona lacks recursion such that one splits things into many sentences.
04/03/25 15:54:01 heav: perhaps i would like to have my language have a similar paradigm (without being a tokiponido).
04/03/25 15:54:26 raven: aha
04/03/25 15:54:52 heav: my languages have previously biased towards having absolute unambiguous recursion.
04/03/25 15:54:57 heav: but, i think it could be fun to subvert that instead.
04/03/25 15:55:36 heav: instead, there will be many ways to link things between sentences.
04/03/25 15:56:36 heav: noam chomsky will flay me alive.
04/03/25 15:56:49 raven: naturally.
04/03/25 15:57:38 heav: i'll be AFK for an hour or so.
04/03/25 15:57:41 raven: generative linguistics is correct because anything which does not adhere to it experiences the wrath of chomsky.
04/03/25 16:57:01 heav: hi. i'm back.
04/03/25 16:57:09 raven: hello.
04/03/25 16:57:10 heav: that was actually more precisely an hour than i thought.
04/03/25 16:57:15 raven: wow!
04/03/25 16:57:26 raven: that was pretty precise.
04/03/25 16:57:29 raven: down to the minute
04/03/25 16:57:32 heav: indeed. it was only off by a few seconds.
04/03/25 16:57:49 heav: back to the conlang mines i suppose.
04/03/25 16:57:55 raven: sad.
04/03/25 16:58:11 heav: languages have to be mined out of the ground.
04/03/25 16:58:16 raven: that's true
04/03/25 16:58:19 heav: it's dangerous and often coercive work.
04/03/25 16:59:27 heav: well, not that, in a capitalist society, work can really be "not coercive", but moreso i mean.
04/03/25 17:00:11 heav: i should figure out what i mean more by the "no recursion" thing.
04/03/25 17:00:17 heav: i.e i should figure out what a sentence actually looks like.
04/03/25 17:00:38 heav: the languages i'm familiar with, toki pona aside, usually have a "to be" verb, which is used with a subject and an object.
04/03/25 17:00:39 raven: capitalism acts as an imperialist force, keeping your language-mining wage low so that it can extract your labor at high margins
04/03/25 17:00:56 heav: indeed. your employers get almost all of the value of your languages mined.
04/03/25 17:01:18 heav: so, toki pona works differently, right?
04/03/25 17:01:37 heav: instead of having a verb for this, li is more like a verb/subject marker.
04/03/25 17:01:43 heav: so, hmm.
04/03/25 17:01:47 heav: i wonder how i want mine to work.
04/03/25 17:01:59 raven: I like not having a copula
04/03/25 17:02:23 heav: i wonder how sentences such as "x is y" would go.
04/03/25 17:02:30 heav: to be fair, i guess "is" is a very overloaded concept full of assumptions.
04/03/25 17:02:35 heav: it doesn't always even mean equality.
04/03/25 17:02:45 heav: i could probably mess with the semantic spaces a little more.
04/03/25 17:03:06 raven: indeed
04/03/25 17:03:31 heav: i do want to very much avoid copying english and similar languages.
04/03/25 17:03:47 heav: so, i will think more deeply about all the senses of english "is" and how i truly want such sentences to be expressed.
04/03/25 17:05:09 heav: it can mean "to have the property of" (i.e x is green), "to be the same object as something" (i.e x is John), and a bunch of other confusing things (i.e x is doing something, x is there, etc.)
04/03/25 17:05:53 heav: i think i would like the former thing to not be expressed with "is" so directly.